The Chick-Fil-A Situation

PMAO opened a can of worms over at his eponymously titled blog, though not eponymously abbreviated. That’s overstating it. It’s not a can of worms. It’s something that needs to be talked about. And I’m taking it a little further.

The Chick-Fil-A Situation.

Dan Cathy, CEO, expressed himself as being against gay marriage AS the CEO, not as a citizen. And tons of in my opinion misguided folks are going out and getting sandwiches all of a sudden, many hypocritically. Some are claiming that the backlash is wrong, because Mr. Cathy is just expressing himself. Great! Right?

Let’s take a look at all the arguments being made, and then I’ll take a crack at demolishing them. It’s more or less easier do to, because in many cases one can just substitute ‘homosexual’ for ‘interracial’ in the demolition of all the stupid arguments against interracial marriage.

1. It’s against God’s laws.
Show me where in the Bible it says anything about forbidding gay marriage. Oh, wait, before you waste your time with that, show me where in the Constitution it says anything about laws being based on one religion – or any religion. Also, hold your breath while you search, for an extra challenge.

Sure, some might cite Leviticus 18:22 “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind; it is abomination.”  But let’s look at that for a second.
A) Who does ‘thou’ refer to here? Just men? Because if it refers to everyone, then lesbian sex is the only sort of sex that’s okay, because men can’t lie with men, and women also can’t lie with men.
B) Read one way, it could be suggesting a difference, not forbidding an act. Compare that with “Thou shalt not cook steak as chicken. It is an abomination.” See? It’s not saying you can’t cook steak or that you can’t cook chicken – just that you should cook them differently. Maybe you should lie with different genders differently?
C) And back to that pesky fact that America is not a theology. Also, that there is more than one religious text.

And finally, there are all sorts of ‘God’s laws’ in the Bible that are broken all the time. I could cherry pick the Bible for verses that support slavery, rape, and imprisoning women during their periods, as well as condemning adultery, fornication, shrimp, working on Sunday (or Saturday, or Friday, or whatever day some religion has chosen), or going to church if  you have to wear glasses, or cutting the hair around your temples, or playing football with a pigskin ball, or planting two different crops in one field.

But no one seems to be clamoring for laws about that stuff. The utter lack of laws banning adultery or clamoring for same is highly notable, in my opinion. And the biggest glaring omission in any religious argument against gay marriage based on Christianity? Christ said absolutely nothing about same sex marriage whatsoever. Sorry, people, your founder had nothing against it, so you can’t really use Christianity as the basis for your argument, even if it WASN’T prohibited by the Constitution. (Sure, that’s on the federal level, but the logic holds up nonetheless.)

You know, people have to really dig to even find references to homosexuals, and then simultaneously cherry pick and twist the passages to even get them to remotely come close to what they claim. And even then, absolutely none of it refers to gay marriage whatsoever. However, what IS forbidden?

I think it’s fair to say that the highest of “God’s laws” would be the Ten Commandments. One of the commandments is about remembering the Sabbath, which is usually done by not working. By this definition, all presidents, cabinet members, members of Congress and their staffs, firemen, Fox broadcasters, newspaper people, police, emergency people, FBI, CIA, sports teams and staff, store, hospital staff and all branches of the military, among many others, are going straight to hell!

And I wonder what Sarah and Todd Palin, recent Chick-Fil-A customers, think about the fact that their own daughter broke another commandment about not committing adultery? Surely if I were to open a restaurant and checked everyone’s marital status in terms of sex and/or children, even if I claimed it was God’s Laws ™, the two of them, along with millions of others, would claim I was trying to stuff my morality down everyone’s throat. But… isn’t it the same god, and the same laws? Not to mention all the people who say gay marriage is against God’s laws and will ruin the sanctity of marriage, while on their second or third spouses?

How did murderers and thieves squeak by? Both directly forbidden by a commandment, but they are allowed to marry? In fact, let’s set up a scenario. Twins are born and raised, and later become adults. One of them rapes children, kills nuns, commits mass murder in a theater, blows up a federal building, shoots up a high school, takes hostages and eats some of them, and cheats on his taxes. The other one is upstanding in every reasonably measurable way – but is gay. Why is the first guy allowed to marry, while the second one isn’t? Does that even make logical sense?

Bottom line – America isn’t a theocracy.

2. If we allow gays to marry, what’s next? People can marry their pets?
Ah, the slippery slope argument. No, moron, people won’t be allowed to marry their pets. And marrying pets is illegal for EVERYONE, so it’s a fair law. In fact, pedophilia, polygamy, polyandry, etc. etc. are all illegal for everyone, so they are also fair. They’re totally different issues. THIS issue is about letting some people do something and prohibiting other people who differ in just one aspect from doing the same.

Besides, we can make such ridiculous arguments about anything, can’t we?
If we move the speed limit from 65 to 70, what’s next? People driving jet cars down the freeway?
If we allow beer to be legal, what’s next? People snorting window cleaner at a local McDonalds?
If we raise taxes on the rich, what’s next? Chain-ganging 3 years olds who have to break rocks all day?
If we don’t put a fence on the border, what’s next? I have to invite Hitler to stay in my guest room?
If we can’t smoke in public, what’s next? Not being able to urinate in public?

3. Gay couples might want to adopt, and those kids will be completely and totally screwed up for life.
Sigh. I’ll let Zach Wahls answer that one.

I’ll close with this observation: Yes, Dan Cathy is free to express himself as he sees fit. It’s a free country, and freedom of expression is what makes this country great. However, that right extends to everyone in the country, so Mr. Cathy shouldn’t be surprised that other people are now expressing themselves as THEY see fit.

Edward Hotspur

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54 responses on “The Chick-Fil-A Situation

  1. Personally, i don’t think the state should be marrying anybody. Offer civil unions instead, and suddenly the church has been removed from state on this issue.

    • You probably mean you don’t think the CHURCH should be marrying anybody. But churches can marry whoever they want. All marriages are also civil unions, as “God-recognized” marriages are not recognized by governments without a marriage license.

      However, why shouldn’t everyone be able to get married in pairs under the current conditions? Why do we have to call it something else to make it okay? I mean, is murder okay if you call it ‘life deprivation’?

      Or “death penalty”……..

      • No, I meant the state. Save the word “marriage” for churches. Marriage began as a sacrament in the church, as is baptism. The state doesn’t offer baptisms or communions, after all.

        Church offers marriage, state offers civil unions. Same sex, opposite sex, anyone.

        Changing the terminology greases the wheels. I’m tired of same-sex couples being denied the same rights as opposite sex couples.

        • Marriage did not begin in “the church”, as marriage predates the church, or indeed religion itself. Baptism did not begin in the church either. Baptism and communion are by definition solely religious functions, while marriage is a predominantly legal one, which is why the state is involved in marriage and not the other two.

          We are in violent agreement on the basic issue of homosexual marriage, but unless gays are allowed to marry like heteros have been for 236 years, it’s not the same. Check this out:
          http://www.christiantoday.com/article/now.vietnam.is.considering.gay.marriage/30381.htm

          We don’t want the communists to get gay marriage before us, do we? ;)

          • I think where I’m coming from is that I want my friends to get their rights first and let the politiians argue about semantics later.

            You and I are on the same side, there’s just a difference in how we’d choose to get there. Waiting for politicians to get their heads out of their religion will take way too long. Know what I mean?

          • Sure – but the right your friends want is the right to get married, not to have a civil union or urban joining or political adhesion or sectarian glueness.

    • I don’t know if that’s totally true, but it is certainly the biggest one right now.

      If people want to be in Defense of Marriage, I think they should first ban divorce and adultery. Banning gay marriage sounds more like an attack ON marriage, not a defense OF marriage.

  2. Eponymously… like that song, ‘the Girl from Eponymoulsy’? She goes walking, or so I hear…
    I am sorry you had to see me opening my ‘can of worms’…
    Sure, go ahead and take my rambling rant and fine tune it and say all the stuff I wanted to say but I am too slow and lazy to type up.
    I am glad I opened this can of worms, and I am glad you took the worms out and played with them…
    It just occured to me that in many places they have common law marriages. This means that if straight people live together for too long, they are married whether they want to be or not, right? I find this ironic and funny. Some folks can’t get married. Some folks have it thrust upon them. I love this crazy world.
    And I love you, Ed. Even though the world strives to keep us apart.
    (HA)!

      • That is a very sexy quality Ed…
        (okay, sorry, I am going to stop doing that now… not that there is anything wrong with that)…
        If you really met me, you would know I give less of a hump than most people. I locked myself into doing a blog that my kids and hopefuly my grandkids someday, can read and learn about what a freak I am. I am hobbling myself. I could tell stories of my life that would shock people. I could have opinions that would start riots. But I sort of like this challange of channeling my life into such a narrow slot… (that was not a heterosexual joke of any kind, just so you know)…

        • It’s a totally open secret that many people, even within our own blogosphere, have two blogs for that very reason. The trick, though, is not to tell anyone from this blog about the other blog, because it defeats the purpose. For example, I am not telling anyone about my other blog, H.E. Ellis.

  3. I am amazed daily by just how crazy things are getting in the USA. We used to to look to you guys for leadership, now we get crap like this. One man’s opinion, even a CEO of a flipping chicken chain, is just not that important. Ignore him, it is just not worth it.

    • If it was one man’s opinion, it would be easy to ignore – like when Jerry Falwell says a hurricane is a punishment against Gay America, that’s easy to ignore. But this statement is more Phelpsian.

      • People say stuff like that all the time, on both sides of ALL issues and they truly mean it, but in the grand scheme of things, it means nothing. As a Canuck, been there, done that, got the T shirt. By giving them an audience, you only make it worse by creating a debate. There is no debate here anymore, just rhetoric. If a tree falls in the forest….

        • Yeah, Canada allows gay marriage, great. I get it, but you don’t have to be condescending about it.

          Here, there IS a debate. It’s literally what my post was about.

          • Sometimes the best strategy in a debate is to not respond. Not meaning to be condescending, sorry if it came off like that. It’s just that things are so different down there as far as progress in social issues like this. A debate I would like to see is why that is down there but not in Canada or the UK or a multitude of other nations?

          • Whoa, sir – gay marriage is still illegal in the UK. In fact, it’s illegal in all but 12 countries, 10 completely legal, and two, Mexico and the US, partially legal. And this issue is being debated in most of the other 170+ countries.

          • BTW, how’s that whole bilingual thing working out? And the perennial Quebec secession threat? See, Canada has some issues that the US doesn’t have.

    • I was speaking generally on issues, not specific to marriage when I referred to the UK. BTW, the bilingual thing is working fine and I haven’t heard the word secession in maybe 5 years and it was in the context of whatever happened to those separatistes lol. In our last national election the separatists went fro 50 members to 3 and the there hasn’t been a “nationalist” provincial government in Quebec for maybe 10 years. Pretty much a non-issue, but thanks for asking.
      As for the original topic, I think we agree that the guy is not correct, and that there is a debate there about the issue. We also agree that it should be a non-issue. Where we disagree is in the methodology on how to get where we want to be.

      • Okay, you’re speaking generally on issues? You said things were getting crazy in the USA because we were listening to what one man said about gay marriage. Meanwhile, in the UK the press and social media have been completely up in arms over what one man said about the British handling of the Olympics. Perhaps you’ve heard of “Romneyshambles”? This phenomenon happens in ALL democratic countries, not just America. It’s crazy to suggest otherwise. You should have stuck to the content of my post, and not used it as an excuse to generally, and hypocritically, bash the United States. Especially when, should a conservative government be elected in Canada, one of the first things it would do is attempt to overturn the Civil Marriage Act, strongly indicating that the issue is far from resolved in Canada. (Edit: I based that on an old Stephen Harper quote, but currently he has decided not to revisit it. I also admit that since America is rife with religious zeal, these issues move more to the forefront and are more contentious.)

        In closing, your supreme court justices dress like Santa Claus. (This is true.)

        • I fully agree with your last 2 paragraphs with one proviso. We have a conservative government and Harper stifled a motion to revisit by one of his more religious members effectively ending the debate.

  4. One of the fringe benefits of being gay (like me) is that you don’t have to put up with that marriage crap. But now it’s like, “Hey, we want to be like straight people and go through a bunch of marriage crap and get divorced and decide who gets the kids and fight over who gets the whatever and blah blah blah.” Fine, go ahead, but leave me out of it.

    • Right. I completely forgot about the compulsory marriage laws for heterosexuals! (In case you’re just joining us, I’m like the Ricky Gervais of the blogosphere, assuming he doesn’t have a blog.)

      No one has to get married or have kids, sir. I’m not gay, but I’m not about to say that since I’m not gay I’m not concerned with discrimination against gays.

      • Oh, that’s true, no one has to get married. It’s just the fact that someone could ask you and you’d have to have an answer. I guess I’m just a lazy ass who doesn’t want to have to deal with or think about it.

  5. You always know what to say. I’m applauding.

    Guy at work raised the kids issue recently, sais it should be banned as the kids will be gay. Then again he has England tattoos and hates foriegners, he also never hands in lost property he finds on the train, he shares the goodies out with his mum, it included baby clothes, a camera with ohotos of said baby…things people might actually miss.

    But lets not let the evil gays marry though eh.

  6. I think America’s problems stem from two things:
    1) Publicly expressed religious zeal that may not necessarily reflect the true level of religiousity.
    2) Having two political parties.

    Focusing on secular expression allows a society to focus on the needs of right now, and not force it to adhere to some outmoded and ridiculous traditions. And having multiple parties of substantial power requires a level of compromise that allows issues to be worked out relatively quickly, as opposed to gridlocking. Not to say that gridlocks don’t happen, but when three or more parties of substantial power exist, two parties can always gang up on the third, allowing speedy resolutions.

    This is why Rush still exists, while Simon and Garfunkel have been separated for decades.

  7. Totally agree. And I love that video of Zach Wahls, which I haven’t seen for a while. I am missing my first gay wedding in 2 weeks because I’ll be too pregnant to fly, but sweet kittens I wanted to be there.

    And on a side note, I find it infuriating that Chickfil-A totally denies why the Muppets/Disney pulled the toys from their restaurant. They blamed it on a recall and that kids were getting their fingers stuck. Then a PR guy pretended to be a teenage girl on FB saying it had nothing to do with the response to their homophobic stance ($). If they’re going to say it’s “free speech,” which to me is ridonk for a restaurant to have a stance on marriage in the first place, then they shouldn’t sweep it under the carpet and pretend it didn’t happen. You can’t have it both ways.

  8. i completely agree with you! in my country at the moment the government is debating whether to legalise same sex marriage, and the ridiculous arguments against legalisation make me so angry and frankly ashamed to be associated with such people. homophobia is not okay, and alienating a huge part of society based on their sexuality is disgusting. love this post!

  9. Pingback: An Analysis And Dissection Of The Utterly Stupid Song “All I Wanna Do Is Make Love To You” | Edward Hotspur·

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